On Creeps and unwelcome touching: my 2 cents

[aldersprig]

I've been surfing through the Don't-be-a-creep stuff recently, and one thing that comes up over and over again is unwelcome touch.

Thinking about this: in a gaming or con atmosphere, I've never (in my admittedly-bad memory) felt I couldn't say "don't touch me," although I recall some negative reactions when I did so - because I'm a very tactile person as was often touching other people

Sideline: Have you noticed people tend to take "you did x with Y" to mean "you should do x with Me?" Very irritating.

My problem with unwelcome touch has almost always been in the workplace, where the reaction to telling people you don't like being touched (I don't, by strangers. I like touching my friends) is almost always hurt-offended-negative or, on rarer occasion, hurt-belittling. (I got him in trouble for that and other comments. It says something about our society that the two times I've done that, I felt really guilty).

How do you deal with touch in public/work situations? Why do people think it's okay?

Comments

[inventrix]

So, this is probably not really that relevant as I have a thing about being touched in general so I have a whole pattern of behavior built up around avoiding it, but.

I don't. The most I get is an occasional friendly not-really-a-back-slap-but-not-a-pat from the marketing guy (who is a really cool guy); that happened like, twice, and I just sort of inwardly flinched.

I just don't stand within arm's reach of people most of the time, so it doesn't happen.

As for why people think it's okay, I would assume because they don't get negative feedback from doing it.

[aldersprig]

It is one thing I have actively tried to set boundaries on (rare for me). I don't know how to better do so. Hrrm. Standing out of reach might be possible. Thanks!

[inventrix]

I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, but I'd think that saying "please don't touch me" is a perfectly fine way of going about it. Or, if that's too blatant (?) then there's always moving out of reach.

[recessional]

Much like the other commenter, mostly people don't touch me. I stand at a deliberate distance, move away from attempts to close it, and also am apparently "scary".

When people do touch me, it's almost always something like a slap on the back, where as long as it only happens once, I ignore it. On the VERY rare occaision that it's otherwise, I React Badly. And generally embarrass the person for their lack of manners.

[aldersprig]

I get very uncomfortable making scenes, or putting other people on the spot. I know i ought to be able to, especially when my boundaries are being violated...

[recessional]

Yeah, I'm unusual amongst women in having been raised to vigorously defend my physical integrity, so to speak. I think it comes from having parents who spent too much time dealing with molested kids, either from the medical or the legal end: It was drilled into my head that I could scream bloody murder about unwanted touch and they'd back me.

So by now it's a genuine knee jerk feeling that the other person is the one in the Wrong, so my reaction comes from that. I know I'm in an unusual position with that.

[ranunculus]

I used to LOVE to be touched. I actively wanted to be hugged by the world. As my personal boundaries got better(read I did a LOT of inner work) that desire melted away, but with it came different body postures and expressions. Almost no outsider ever touches me, though my partners and good friends certainly do.

So: I in the past I touched people because --I--- wanted the touch without discrimination - but I never wanted to hurt or coerce anyone. In a different personality that same desire might have been even more unhealthy or even downright predatory thus increasing the "Ick" factor by a lot.

One thing you can do when dealing with other people is to stick your hand out and briskly shake hands keeping your hand firm, and dropping the other hand after a short time. It creates a formal boundary that clearly says: No closer please, while at the same time allowing you to remain as friendly as you like. Sure, it is touch, but in general I find a handshake is more acceptable to me than a hug or other touch.

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I'm on the unusual side here. I don't want to be around people who make a huge deal out of touch boundaries. I can cope with either touching freely or not touching, but when it gets complicated or people pick at each other over it, that runs up the processing energy load beyond what it's worth to be around people at all. I have no trouble defending my boundaries. But when people start making fancy little rules about who and when and how and ... fuck it, I'll go be somewhere else. That's not an acceptable opinion, so fine, I can be somewhere else. But every once in a while I mention it so that other folks who share it know they're not alone.

[aldersprig]

Around friend-like-people, I do generally ask, "I'm going to hug you now, is that okay?" unless they are at a level of friendship where I know it's okay.

I have a very strong dichotomy: I can't stand not to be touched by intimates and hate being touched by strangers.

Re: Well...

[inventrix]

I don't know, I think "don't touch me without my permission" is a nice, single, clean-cut boundary.

[twisted_times]

I just got back from BiCon 2012 just over a week ago. I was talking to a fellow regular at BiCons over the years about the wording of the examples given with regards to touching and consent in the BiCon Code of Conduct. They have gone from "Can I give you a hug?" to ""May I give you a hug?" to "Would you like a hug?"

Note that each question is slightly but significantly different from the last and that in it's current incarnation consent must be explicitly given, which helps in establishing boundaries - something I find very difficult to do personally at times.

I have a similar-but-different dichotomy; I'm a cuddleslut and I love being hugged, cuddled and given backrubs, but only on my terms. Done when I don't expect it or want it, I hate it and find it can be quite triggering. ><

[aldersprig]

Wow.

I'm not sure how i feel about that. On one hand, it's very reasonable. On another, that it needed to be codified is kinda scary...

...then again, I started this talking about people who don't understand it when it's not codified, didn't I?

[twisted_times]

Well, the whole idea of BiCon is that it is, above all, as "safe space" for those attending it. The codification of BiCon's Code of Conduct, has evolved over many years (BiCon just had it's 30th birthday this year) to its current form. Here's the full text for next year's BiCon already available for all to read online.

It's sad to say that the actions of a tiny minority who cross the line, intentionally or not, from time to time mean that the what is and is not acceptable behaviour has had to be explicitly written down, but it does remove as much ambiguity as possible from any situations that may arise.

Also, there is a higher-than-average preponderance of mental health problems within the bi community compared the general population, which means that those who run BiCons have gained better awareness of the problems that unwanted conduct may have an others in terms of distress, triggering, and so forth - another reason that the Code of Conduct has evolved to its current form.

[aldersprig]

Aaaah, that makes sense then *nods*

And yes. I'm a gamer; "higher-than-average preponderance of mental health problems" fits there, too.