Head South

Feb. 26th, 2017 09:26 pm
aldersprig: (CyaSmile)
[personal profile] aldersprig
Cya, after the apocalypse but before her kids go to Addergoole

Cya knew she was one of the good guys.

That was: she knew she was one of Boom, and she knew Boom were the good guys.

She knew that was all that kept her from going off the rails most days.

Some days, all it did was remind her how to cover it up.

She looked at the boy - man - the Kept in front of her and sighed. "You're a mess, darling," she muttered. He was sleeping. The Working she'd done would keep him that way for a while.

She wrote him a note anyway, because Cya believed in planning ahead. I had to run an errand. If I'm not back by Wednesday night, take this note to Howard and tell him "look South."

Of course, almost everything was south from the Ranch, except Canada, but she didn't want her Kept to guess where she was going.

She took her car. It shouldn't still be running, but at this stage, she wasn't the only one with a much-repaired vehicle still on the road, and hey, she could turn dirt into gas, which did help matters.

She tried not to hold on too tight to the steering wheel, but there was a small fire of anger deep in her gut. It was, like everything she felt at that point, a cold fire, a lump rather than a storm.

It was going to hurt someone anyway.

The man sleeping in her bed... When she talked to Addergoole, they told her things were better. They were old fae and had old memories, and they meant Things like what happened to Eris will never happen again. They meant, if it was Luke, who had seen it, or Mike, who paid more attention than he was given credit for, they meant we'll try to make sure what happened to Leo doesn't happen again. Leo was harder. She knew that, even though she didn't really forgive it. Leo's breaking hadn't been nearly as visible as Eris bleeding in the halls.

They told her things were better, but there was only so far they were willing to go. Some people just weren't meant to Keep and some people just shouldn't be Kept, and those mistakes, Addergoole wasn't going to fix any time soon.

And sometimes people were just too good at hiding their poison; some people were just too good at hiding their wounds. Agi, the man sleeping on her bed - he was one of those. His keeper had been sharp with her knife and careful, and her abuse had been subtle enough that it had never been picked up on. He'd gone through the next three years at Addergoole thinking it'd been his fault.

She knew the story too well. This time, someone was going to pay.

She held onto the steering wheel a little too tightly and whispered Repair Workings at the road ahead of her. There was no reason not to clean up as she went, and if this went south instead of just South, Howard would have a trail to follow.

Date: 2017-02-27 05:54 am (UTC)
thnidu: my familiar. "Beanie Baby" -type dragon, red with white wings (Default)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
How about quotation marks or italics for the text of Cya's note in ¶4?

• it had never been picked on.
-> picked up on

Date: 2017-02-27 05:45 pm (UTC)
lilfluff: On of my RP characters, a mouse who happens to be a student librarian. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lilfluff
Hmm.I do believe someone is about to become an example.

Date: 2017-02-28 05:45 am (UTC)
sauergeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sauergeek
Cya knew she was one of the good guys.

This statement is very nearly semantically null. It is a rare person who thinks of themselves as one of the bad guys. The perceived goodness can make a person a saint -- though doubt in your own goodness is far more likely to achieve that result -- but it can, and has, produce some of the most hideously evil people the world has known. (Religion is one of the most significant aids in this particular conviction of goodness that produces evil.)

In fiction, especially Magneto and likely Doctor Doom themselves good guys. The Joker probably thinks of himself as one of the bad guys, but he's also completely around-the-bend insane. Real world, the "God Hates Fags" crew of idiots likely consider themselves good guys, as do white supremacists and the people who shoot up abortion clinics.

Cya making that statement, and even tying it to the rest of Boom, says very little, and makes me rather suspicious of her motives. What do they actually *do*? Are they making Mother Teresa sacrifices? Or are they sure they can save the world if only these millions of idiot people would stop getting in their way?

Date: 2017-02-28 04:49 pm (UTC)
inventrix: (Default)
From: [personal profile] inventrix
I enjoyed reading this a lot. :D I want to point something out for you to consider, on this topic.

What if one treats "knows she's one of the good guys" as not implying "believes she's one of the good guys"? Does that substantially change the reading of the statement?

Date: 2017-03-01 11:49 pm (UTC)
sauergeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sauergeek
Knowing you're one of the good guys, to my mind, is even more confident than belief that you are one of the good guys, and hence even more dangerous. Doubting your own goodness -- and trying to be better about it -- is far safer.

Date: 2017-03-03 02:29 am (UTC)
sauergeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sauergeek
I have a vague memory of one of the Sherlock Holmes stories going into this. I can't offhand find it, but it's something like Holmes being commended as an angel, to which he responds that while he may be on the side of the angels, he is by no means one himself. How to make a sentiment like that fit Cya is (at least for me) a far more complex proposition.

Date: 2017-03-03 10:39 pm (UTC)
inventrix: (Default)
From: [personal profile] inventrix
It's from the abomination that is the BBC television series.

(Don't mind me, I have strong opinions about the characterization of Sherlock Holmes. >.> It's a good quote.)

The general gist of it re: Cya is, I think, that she does not consider herself a moral person, but she plays by the rules of her crew, who she and most of their peers considers to be moral people. Generally speaking. Plus a healthy does of "good and evil are relative"; considering how terribly bad the bad guys are, it doesn't take particularly sparkling-clean morals to be one of the good guys in comparison.

Date: 2017-03-03 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I've never seen even one fraction of the BBC series. The writers lifted it, in part or in whole, from the written stories. That lifting is why I couldn't find the original when I was looking for it. That said, the most likely place they lifted it from was the story "The Final Problem", which is what Google tells me the TV episode "The Reichenbach Fall" is based on.

(Having said that, I'm awake enough now to re-read The Final Problem to see if that quote is in it. I see no instance of the word "angel" in the story, nor, having read through it, anything else that seems likely that I would have misremembered that way. I think it is likely that the writers lifted it from elsewhere.)

Date: 2017-03-04 06:29 am (UTC)
inventrix: (Default)
From: [personal profile] inventrix
There's one thing for sure, the original doesn't say "angel" because I just searched every single compilation for it. ...Ah! Maybe it's saint? ...No, no, not saint. Right I'll just... search 'number' then...

Nope, nothing.

If it IS a quote from canon, I think it was from a female client, or a female who was aided by virtue of solving the case. So, probably not The Final Problem, or in the relation of events off-screen during it which are later related in The Empty House.

Date: 2017-03-02 09:32 pm (UTC)
inventrix: (Default)
From: [personal profile] inventrix
Interesting. That's actually the reverse of how I interpret the two phrases! One can know that one is one of the good guys, but not believe it; doubt is, after all, a lack of belief, not a lack of knowledge.

Date: 2017-03-03 02:27 am (UTC)
sauergeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sauergeek
I look at it in this way. I know 2+2=4. I've got that, no need to check. I believe the derivative of x^3 is 3x^2, but if that fact was important for anything, I'd make sure I had it right first. I have a lot less certain grasp on even the basics of derivative calculus than I do arithmetic.

If I know I'm one of the good guys, I have no need to check that either. Belief that I'm one of the good guys is less certain, more needing of verification, but probably sufficient to run with most of the time. Both are dangerous, but I regard someone firm in their knowledge to be more so.

Date: 2017-03-03 10:33 pm (UTC)
inventrix: (Default)
From: [personal profile] inventrix
Ah, interesting! I look at it more like... knowledge requires evidence - the thing being known. Belief takes nothing more than a conviction. Belief can even supercede evidence.

For example: some people believe the earth is flat. Some people believe that Jesus rose from the dead after execution by crucifiction. In the first case, they believe this despite evidence to the contrary, because their conviction outweighs their knowledge. In the second case, they believe this despite a lack of knowledge.

I would posit that you don't believe the derivative of x^3 is 3x^2; you think it is, or suspect it is, but you don't actually believe it or you wouldn't need to check.

On the original point: let's say you know you are one of the good guys. This means you have evidence; there is a fact, supported by reality, that you are one of the good guys.

Compare that to believing you are one of the good guys. There's no evidence; there might even be contrary evidence, but you believe it so you assume that evidence is false.

Lastly, you think you are one of good guys. There's some reason for you to believe it, but you aren't fully convinced and your mind can be swayed otherwise.

Date: 2017-03-05 06:40 am (UTC)
sauergeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sauergeek
I see I've been out of religion for far too long. I tend to forget, likely to my detriment, about those who will bend anything else to support their convictions. That form of belief is far more dangerous, treacherous, cruel, and obstinate, than even the knowing I detailed above. That sort of belief can also produce saints. It can -- and does -- also produce a host of holy horrors alongside. *shudder*

Date: 2017-03-05 07:20 am (UTC)
inventrix: (Default)
From: [personal profile] inventrix
I'm a Roman Catholic but I agree with you completely on those last two points. Some people do truly awful things for their beliefs and some just outright believe awful things.

Date: 2017-03-05 03:20 am (UTC)
clare_dragonfly: woman with green feathery wings, text: stories last longer: but only by becoming only stories (Default)
From: [personal profile] clare_dragonfly
whee! :D

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