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aldersprig...You've managed to survive the end of the world, where 90% of the people didn't.
You've managed to survive the first few horrid years of "shit, how do we feed ourselves?" and so on.
It is now Apoc+5, and you and about 400 other people have managed to form a small, mostly-self-sufficient community.
It's time to think of the laws, the taxes, the ideals by which your society will be governed, and your input is being asked for - and valued highly.
What are the top tenets of the society as you suggest them?
You've managed to survive the first few horrid years of "shit, how do we feed ourselves?" and so on.
It is now Apoc+5, and you and about 400 other people have managed to form a small, mostly-self-sufficient community.
It's time to think of the laws, the taxes, the ideals by which your society will be governed, and your input is being asked for - and valued highly.
What are the top tenets of the society as you suggest them?
Okay...
Date: 2014-06-02 08:41 am (UTC)* Gently if possible, firmly if necessary.
* If you don't know the answer, look it up, don't make it up.
* You can't fix the whole world, but you can make your little corner of it a better place.
* If you're not making any mistakes, you're not learning, you're coasting.
Re: Okay...
Date: 2014-06-05 04:38 pm (UTC)* You can't fix the whole world, but you can make your little corner of it a better place.
I like these a lot!
no subject
Date: 2014-06-02 10:56 am (UTC)Practice random acts of kindness, even little ones.
Try to learn a little bit more each day and leave the world a little bit better.
The universe owes you nothing, you have to earn it.
Life isn't fair, it's up to people to make it fair.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-02 03:27 pm (UTC)First you need to gather info on who has what sorts of skills and knowledge. Then, allocate labor and resources according to said skills. Top priority are: farmers/butchers to maintain a food supply, builders to create effective and secure shelter, and teachers to prevent the loss of as much pre-apocalypse knowledge as possible. Other important possible assignments are smiths, hunters, guards, and childcare.
End products - i.e. the things people use to live and be as comfortable as they can rather than things they use for their work - are to be distributed fairly. A basic currency system should be implemented to allow people to buy/sell "luxuries" to/from the central warehouse, but necessities are to be distributed to all members as needed. Everyone should support each other's basic existence and the "luxury market" would provide incentive to do more than the minimum necessary, once resources were sufficient to do so.
The distributor position is highly abusable so there would need to be clear and effective checks in place, such as having a group instead of an individual or having the goods and resources distributed among multiple warehouses. (I say warehouses but they could be any kind of storage facility.)
no subject
Date: 2014-06-02 03:33 pm (UTC)So, I think a codification of basic human decency would be beneficial to prevent future development of assholery that could disrupt the community. Reclaiming "luxury" items as a punishment seems too easily abused and incarceration is too resource-intensive so I think you would get a set number of warnings for lesser infractions and, for multiple or greater infractions, permanent exile from the community. It might seem harsh to some but a small community in such difficult times really can't afford to support such damaging attitudes.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-02 09:31 pm (UTC)If someone's doing Bad Things, it may not be because they're a Bad Person. It may be because they're in a Bad Situation. Try fixing that, first.
Children are an essential component of there continuing to be people. They're also very vulnerable. It's your job to do whatever has to be done to take care of them.
Everyone has a basic human right to a solid liberal arts education.
Receiving said solid liberal arts education is instrumental to becoming a free citizen of our new society. "Liberal arts" = the arts of a free man, the arts that give someone the capability to be free. If you've turned down the good education we've freely provided, and taken no steps to obtain your own elsewhere, don't expect to hold public office.
The health of the body parallels the health of the mind. Psychiatric care should be as routine, non-stigmatized, and easily accessible as physical health care. I want to see children having yearly well-checks with their friendly neighborhood therapist.
My reply
Date: 2014-06-03 04:22 pm (UTC)Your question has been marvelously thought-provoking. Some high points:
* Your rights start where my rights stop, and vice versa.
* * Laws are a group’s way of respecting themselves and each other.
Conversations about justice, especially restorative justice, should begin immediately. A list of or few universal laws should be posted in visible places around the compound, discussed and hammered out over at LEAST half a year of active discussion. The bullet points for this reply represent one kind of Social Contract.
*Laws should be clear, understood by the average ten-year-old, and protect the society while maintaining the greatest individual freedoms.
If you cannot list all of the safeguards against corrupt judges and peace offers on two hands, there are too few safeguards. If you cannot list /all/ the laws regarding personal property on the fingers of two hands, there are too many laws. The same for laws regarding public safety, the situations which do or do not require mandatory community service, individual rights to self-determinism, and the rights of minors due the protection of the community as a whole. The total law ‘book’ should be simple, clear, and short enough for the average ten-year-old to memorize with only moderate effort. “Keep public spaces clean,” rather than “No dumping, no littering, no graffiti, no spitting on sidewalks,” et cetera, ad nauseam.
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-05 02:07 pm (UTC)Awesome, I totally agree. :-)
(not that the rest isn't cool, too)
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 05:50 am (UTC)•If you cannot list all of the safeguards against corrupt judges and peace offers on two hands, there are too few safeguards.
> Shouldn't that be "If you *can* list..."? As it is, it makes no sense.
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 11:42 am (UTC)Checks and balances, not just a vague "judges shouldn't take bribes".
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 03:19 pm (UTC)If you cannot list (the members of a set) on your two hands, then (that set) numbers MORE THAN ten.
Example:
• Can you list the vowel letters of English on two hands? Yes, and maybe on one: A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y.
- CAN means 10 OR LESS. This could be "too few" for some purpose.
• Can you list the Presidents of the United States on two hands? No, you cannot: there have been 44 of them— 43 if you count Cleveland only once.
- CANNOT means MORE THAN 10. This could be "too many", but it can't be "too few".
So here's how I'd mark up those two sentences:
✘ If you can
notlist all of the safeguards against corrupt judges and peace offers on two hands, there are too few safeguards.✔ If you cannot list /all/ the laws regarding personal property on the fingers of two hands, there are too many laws.
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 03:49 pm (UTC)THANK YOU.
Clarification. If there aren't ENOUGH safeguards to list on two hands?
Better?
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 03:50 pm (UTC)Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 08:21 pm (UTC)If you can list all of the safeguards against corrupt judges and peace offers on two hands, there are too few safeguards.
(This is what I have up there, but I think the strikeout through the "not" of "cannot" doesn't show up well.)
(Also, peace offICers, not offers.)
Or maybe even better:
If you have enough fingers on your two hands to list all of the safeguards against corrupt judges and peace officers... you don't have enough safeguards.
Unless you have enough fingers on your two hands to list all the laws regarding personal property, you have too many laws.
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 08:39 pm (UTC)Overlapping, interconnecting checks and balances, in simple language.
The person who runs THE school for magic should not ALSO be the head of the international wizard government, AND the head of the British court system.
In other words, he can make a law, enforce it internationally, and teach the students SPECIFICALLY in such a way to make other options simply-- INVISIBLE.
Re: My reply
Date: 2014-06-06 09:15 pm (UTC)"No, I meant, if there aren't at least ten safeguards, there aren't enough." That's what my versions mean. Well, almost. What you said, what I reworded, means "ten isn't enough", i.e., "you need *more than *ten" (not "at least ten", which = "ten or more").
And, aha. Preventing multiple office-holding didn't come through to me at all till your latest post; that doesn't just spring to mind from "checks and balances". (It was also kind of twisty in your last two paragraphs. ¶3 says DON'T HAVE THIS COMBINATION, but then ¶4 describes the consequences of that combo, assuming that you do have it but not saying so. D'you think it'd've been clearer to say, e.g.,?
longer reply
Date: 2014-06-05 02:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-06 02:34 am (UTC)0. For a society to exist, the members of it have to want to associate with each other. For this to be true, 1-4 need to also be true.
1. The next member any given person of the society meets should be less likely to kill them then to not.
2. The next member any given person of the society meets should be less likely to rob them then to not.
3. The next member any given person of the society meets should be less likely to lie to them then to not.
4. The next member any given person of the society meets should be less likely to enslave them then to not.
Other then possibly number one fey 'society', or at least Addergoole, fails on all accounts.
I don't know how I missed this one...
Date: 2014-06-07 08:13 pm (UTC)→ Managed
Re: I don't know how I missed this one...
Date: 2014-06-10 06:36 pm (UTC)Re: I don't know how I missed this one...
Date: 2014-06-10 08:40 pm (UTC)My guess is, the same way I missed it first time. Read it aloud or in your head, and the /-d/ of "managed" merges with the /t-/ of "to".